Jess Piper (View from Rural Missouri) addressed this issue - and continues to - about whether rural voters vote "against their interests". Her take is that since Howard Dean left the job of head of the DNC, Democrats haven't had a 50 system strategy. In most "red states" the Democats don't even field candidates and when they do, the national party provides no support. As a result, in most counties/districts, people can't vote for Democrats because they aren't actually on the ballot.
Now that doesn't address presidential elections, but what would make a person vote for a Democratic nominee for President, when they haven't been on a local ballot in years? Hard to think Dems are going to help from DC.
As you have pointed out, there's alot of nuance in elections that FAFO doesn't come close to addressing.
Having lived in a lot of different places... I agree with you.. at the presidential level.
I really think the reason that we lost Appalachia is because of local. Many Dems in many rural places were AWFUL.
Then the GOP came courting and acted during the run up to the election as if they had the best interests of the locals population and to be sure... some dud.
And then, frankly.. the Dems left. We ceded the airwaves to Sinclair, we only looked to "winnable " districts and bet the whole world on CA and NY.
I think it is much more that the Dem consultant class decided that they didn't need Appalachia to win. And... they were wrong. Deeply unforgivingly wrong. It was the Dem body politic that worked against its own best interest. And now... here we are.
This is one of the best pieces I’ve read on Substack in awhile. Thank you.
I agree that shit-talking and sneering at people is not an effective way to bring them on board. At the same time, I can understand why members of the vulnerable communities that are being directly targeted by this fascist administration can’t resist the delights of schadenfreude. I think what matters is whether you have enough understanding people who are going to seek out these West Virginians, or every other predominantly red constituency, to empathically explain to them that this is what we were trying to warn them about, and encourage them to come over to the right side.
At the same time, the outright bigots and bullies and narcissists need to be openly challenged and humiliated, where necessary, when it’s obvious that they’re either disinforming people or trying to take advantage of them. It’s such a delicate balance.
Regardless, at the end of this dismal time in American politics, people are going to have to learn to respect each other again.
Unfortunately for many people Trump wants to shut down FEMA. These people help provide aid and information to disaster victims. Trump wants the states to pay for this. FEMA is like an insurance policy for the US to insure all people no matter their state, city or town receive aid when necessary.
It's kinda hard to vote for someone to represent you when you KNOW there is no one on the ballot who will truly represent you. The Democrats dominated West Virginia for generations because of their support for unions. When that went away under Clinton(the rhetoric didn't, but the actual support did), it is only natural that Democratic voters became former Democratic voters.
BTW, I don't believe Harris would help out Appalachia one whit more than Trump. After East Palestine, why would anyone think that? She despises you people, and so do most of the haters on the internet. They need to feel intellectually and morally superior to somebody, and guess who is very convenient for that?
It's really so that they never have to look in a mirror themselves.
I'm from West Virginia, so I can only speak on that, but yes, we do vote against our best interest.
I have friends who have never traveled more than 100 miles from their hometown, but they know how the world should live. Surprise, it's just like they do!
People who have known very few or no outwardly gay or trans persons, but know they are being harmed by the gays and trans.
People who are 2nd or 3rd generation on public assistance, but all others on assistance are takers.
Take the previous paragraph, but substitute the word 'others' with black, Mexicans, etc., even though they live in a community that is over 95% or more white. They consider it a fact.
People whose idea of manhood comes from Louis L'Amour novels and Sam Elliot movies.
People who look down on those with a college education, and listen to people who lie to them; then wonder why the children who do go to college don't return.
I could go on, but I think this is enough to show that republican culture wars are working. Yes, we do vote against our best interests.
Wonderful piece…maybe I am saying that because it absolutely aligns with a lot of my thinking but you are spot on with the complexities of a region like Appalachia. I am white, 73 yo, and LGBTQ. For many years I lived in Richmond, VA and my partner during that time was from a small town in western VA along I-81 between Roanoke and Bristol. I visited her family in their home on a number of occasions. She grew up in privilege…her father was one of the doctors in town and he had a big reputation in her town. He invested heavily in the stock market and during this time after both her parents passed, she has been able to live independently without working because of a trust her father set up.
Spending time with her parents and her sister when they were alive and spending time in the area was an opportunity for me to see and learn things I had not really thought about previously (I was raised upper middle class outside of Philadelphia, PA). She moved back to her hometown maybe 15 yrs ago (we broke up in the early 2000s). While she is often in despair about the politics of the majority of her town, she definitely understands their frustration and hopelessness. She was one of the few who voted for Harris in the last election but now she is so disillusioned by the entire political system she has declared she will never vote again. She doesn’t see the point.
For myself I also voted for Harris and I have been a lifelong Democrat and bleeding heart liberal who has become so angry at the Democratic leadership, I could spit nails. The leadership of the Democratic Party today are financial elites. They aren’t on the level of oligarchs like Musk, Zuckerberg, and Bezos, but they are comfortable financially and also have comfortable retirements to look forward to. They are totally out of touch with the rest of us and they don’t want anything to threaten their current lifestyle or their retirement in the future. Their decisions as our Democratic leadership are very much influenced by their financial status. I call them “intellectual” progressives because they will support progressive issues as long as those issues don’t conflict with their financial bottom line. Their disconnectedness from the rest of us is perhaps somewhat more benign than say Trump or Musk but it is equally as damaging.
I can see that dems have failed folks in rural communities like this. But looking at the shift in the maps you shared, beginning in 1992, I wonder how that tracks with the rise of Fox News and other right wing media outlets, and social media use.
This. June and Ward Cleaver are long gone. We no longer read a shared newspaper and a world where everyone watched ABC,NBC and CBS news hours are a distant memory. We live in vastly different worlds on the same planet created by sown division.
It is absolutely wrong to play the FAFO card just bc someone merely lives in a red state. I also don’t believe in lashing out at those who didn’t vote at all; as you rightly pointed out, Dems weren’t solving the issues either.
Nevertheless, to those who deliberately voted for TFG to harm others, and are now crying about their personal losses under the regime, I have little sympathy.
Hi Chuck, I’ve been a reader for a few years & consistently love your takes and really respect the work you’re doing here. I live in northern Appalachia (central PA) and I am consistently stunned to hear friends who live (mostly in) coastal liberal cities espouse some admittedly horrifying views about rural people in general but especially Appalachians. Like things they would never dare to say about any other underrepresented or marginalized group, but feel totally comfortable when the people in question are poor/working class, rural and white.
It’s a serious problem because I think it reflects the trend of the Democratic party abandoning rural and working class voters over the last 25 years. The Democratic Party of today has a huge class problem. And by that, I mean there is little to no class solidarity. It is the party of people who mostly make over $100k a year. And polls and demographic surveys back me up on that point.
Another commenter made a great point: Democrats no longer show up to run in state and congressional elections because they don’t think it’s worth it. They don’t send candidates to these areas for stump speeches. For example, Trump held at least two major rallies in central PA leading up to the election and Harris didn’t even come once. They sent governor Josh Shapiro in her stead.
That’s not even getting into how so many areas of Appalachia have been economically cratered out by the migration of good paying factory jobs overseas, plus the trend of corporations prioritizing shareholder returns over increasing salaries and benefits for workers. Which has coincided with the decline of union membership and advocacy. And many of these policy changes happened *under Democratic leadership*.
Republicans may not care a lick about Appalachian voters but they sure are good at sweet talking us and making us feel cared for. And they’re good at actually showing up. So who can blame large swaths of the region for voting for the only party that speaks to them as if they are not stupid and backwards and unworthy? Who never called them “deplorables”?
No matter that the Democratic party has the potential to do so much good for Appalachia. I think we can get there but it’s going to take local leadership and a change in strategy at the national level. Because as it turns out: you need rural areas in order to win elections. And in particular, you need Appalachia.
Yesterday I came across a piece written for “resistance libs?” with the dismissive headline that Appalachians were learning mutual aid. Blink. The intention was, I believe, inclusiveness but a well meant article was utterly trashed by an ill written headline. As if less educated people need to be taught mutual aid. As if fly over country is a place to parachute in then get back to real life without having learned anything new. No malice. Just an unfathomable distance. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.
Let’s put it this way, when I’ve messed up something, or I’m in trouble, the first thing I think isn’t thank God someone told me how stupid I was. The people I remember are the ones who help me out.
Jess Piper (View from Rural Missouri) addressed this issue - and continues to - about whether rural voters vote "against their interests". Her take is that since Howard Dean left the job of head of the DNC, Democrats haven't had a 50 system strategy. In most "red states" the Democats don't even field candidates and when they do, the national party provides no support. As a result, in most counties/districts, people can't vote for Democrats because they aren't actually on the ballot.
Now that doesn't address presidential elections, but what would make a person vote for a Democratic nominee for President, when they haven't been on a local ballot in years? Hard to think Dems are going to help from DC.
As you have pointed out, there's alot of nuance in elections that FAFO doesn't come close to addressing.
Having lived in a lot of different places... I agree with you.. at the presidential level.
I really think the reason that we lost Appalachia is because of local. Many Dems in many rural places were AWFUL.
Then the GOP came courting and acted during the run up to the election as if they had the best interests of the locals population and to be sure... some dud.
And then, frankly.. the Dems left. We ceded the airwaves to Sinclair, we only looked to "winnable " districts and bet the whole world on CA and NY.
I think it is much more that the Dem consultant class decided that they didn't need Appalachia to win. And... they were wrong. Deeply unforgivingly wrong. It was the Dem body politic that worked against its own best interest. And now... here we are.
This is one of the best pieces I’ve read on Substack in awhile. Thank you.
I agree that shit-talking and sneering at people is not an effective way to bring them on board. At the same time, I can understand why members of the vulnerable communities that are being directly targeted by this fascist administration can’t resist the delights of schadenfreude. I think what matters is whether you have enough understanding people who are going to seek out these West Virginians, or every other predominantly red constituency, to empathically explain to them that this is what we were trying to warn them about, and encourage them to come over to the right side.
At the same time, the outright bigots and bullies and narcissists need to be openly challenged and humiliated, where necessary, when it’s obvious that they’re either disinforming people or trying to take advantage of them. It’s such a delicate balance.
Regardless, at the end of this dismal time in American politics, people are going to have to learn to respect each other again.
Thank you. I really appreciate the kind words.
Unfortunately for many people Trump wants to shut down FEMA. These people help provide aid and information to disaster victims. Trump wants the states to pay for this. FEMA is like an insurance policy for the US to insure all people no matter their state, city or town receive aid when necessary.
Thank you for putting words to this!
It's kinda hard to vote for someone to represent you when you KNOW there is no one on the ballot who will truly represent you. The Democrats dominated West Virginia for generations because of their support for unions. When that went away under Clinton(the rhetoric didn't, but the actual support did), it is only natural that Democratic voters became former Democratic voters.
BTW, I don't believe Harris would help out Appalachia one whit more than Trump. After East Palestine, why would anyone think that? She despises you people, and so do most of the haters on the internet. They need to feel intellectually and morally superior to somebody, and guess who is very convenient for that?
It's really so that they never have to look in a mirror themselves.
Harris despises “you people.” That sounds like more divisive rhetoric. Solidarity calls for less of that not more.
I'm from West Virginia, so I can only speak on that, but yes, we do vote against our best interest.
I have friends who have never traveled more than 100 miles from their hometown, but they know how the world should live. Surprise, it's just like they do!
People who have known very few or no outwardly gay or trans persons, but know they are being harmed by the gays and trans.
People who are 2nd or 3rd generation on public assistance, but all others on assistance are takers.
Take the previous paragraph, but substitute the word 'others' with black, Mexicans, etc., even though they live in a community that is over 95% or more white. They consider it a fact.
People whose idea of manhood comes from Louis L'Amour novels and Sam Elliot movies.
People who look down on those with a college education, and listen to people who lie to them; then wonder why the children who do go to college don't return.
I could go on, but I think this is enough to show that republican culture wars are working. Yes, we do vote against our best interests.
Wonderful piece…maybe I am saying that because it absolutely aligns with a lot of my thinking but you are spot on with the complexities of a region like Appalachia. I am white, 73 yo, and LGBTQ. For many years I lived in Richmond, VA and my partner during that time was from a small town in western VA along I-81 between Roanoke and Bristol. I visited her family in their home on a number of occasions. She grew up in privilege…her father was one of the doctors in town and he had a big reputation in her town. He invested heavily in the stock market and during this time after both her parents passed, she has been able to live independently without working because of a trust her father set up.
Spending time with her parents and her sister when they were alive and spending time in the area was an opportunity for me to see and learn things I had not really thought about previously (I was raised upper middle class outside of Philadelphia, PA). She moved back to her hometown maybe 15 yrs ago (we broke up in the early 2000s). While she is often in despair about the politics of the majority of her town, she definitely understands their frustration and hopelessness. She was one of the few who voted for Harris in the last election but now she is so disillusioned by the entire political system she has declared she will never vote again. She doesn’t see the point.
For myself I also voted for Harris and I have been a lifelong Democrat and bleeding heart liberal who has become so angry at the Democratic leadership, I could spit nails. The leadership of the Democratic Party today are financial elites. They aren’t on the level of oligarchs like Musk, Zuckerberg, and Bezos, but they are comfortable financially and also have comfortable retirements to look forward to. They are totally out of touch with the rest of us and they don’t want anything to threaten their current lifestyle or their retirement in the future. Their decisions as our Democratic leadership are very much influenced by their financial status. I call them “intellectual” progressives because they will support progressive issues as long as those issues don’t conflict with their financial bottom line. Their disconnectedness from the rest of us is perhaps somewhat more benign than say Trump or Musk but it is equally as damaging.
I can see that dems have failed folks in rural communities like this. But looking at the shift in the maps you shared, beginning in 1992, I wonder how that tracks with the rise of Fox News and other right wing media outlets, and social media use.
This. June and Ward Cleaver are long gone. We no longer read a shared newspaper and a world where everyone watched ABC,NBC and CBS news hours are a distant memory. We live in vastly different worlds on the same planet created by sown division.
It is absolutely wrong to play the FAFO card just bc someone merely lives in a red state. I also don’t believe in lashing out at those who didn’t vote at all; as you rightly pointed out, Dems weren’t solving the issues either.
Nevertheless, to those who deliberately voted for TFG to harm others, and are now crying about their personal losses under the regime, I have little sympathy.
Yes!
Hi Chuck, I’ve been a reader for a few years & consistently love your takes and really respect the work you’re doing here. I live in northern Appalachia (central PA) and I am consistently stunned to hear friends who live (mostly in) coastal liberal cities espouse some admittedly horrifying views about rural people in general but especially Appalachians. Like things they would never dare to say about any other underrepresented or marginalized group, but feel totally comfortable when the people in question are poor/working class, rural and white.
It’s a serious problem because I think it reflects the trend of the Democratic party abandoning rural and working class voters over the last 25 years. The Democratic Party of today has a huge class problem. And by that, I mean there is little to no class solidarity. It is the party of people who mostly make over $100k a year. And polls and demographic surveys back me up on that point.
Another commenter made a great point: Democrats no longer show up to run in state and congressional elections because they don’t think it’s worth it. They don’t send candidates to these areas for stump speeches. For example, Trump held at least two major rallies in central PA leading up to the election and Harris didn’t even come once. They sent governor Josh Shapiro in her stead.
That’s not even getting into how so many areas of Appalachia have been economically cratered out by the migration of good paying factory jobs overseas, plus the trend of corporations prioritizing shareholder returns over increasing salaries and benefits for workers. Which has coincided with the decline of union membership and advocacy. And many of these policy changes happened *under Democratic leadership*.
Republicans may not care a lick about Appalachian voters but they sure are good at sweet talking us and making us feel cared for. And they’re good at actually showing up. So who can blame large swaths of the region for voting for the only party that speaks to them as if they are not stupid and backwards and unworthy? Who never called them “deplorables”?
No matter that the Democratic party has the potential to do so much good for Appalachia. I think we can get there but it’s going to take local leadership and a change in strategy at the national level. Because as it turns out: you need rural areas in order to win elections. And in particular, you need Appalachia.
Yesterday I came across a piece written for “resistance libs?” with the dismissive headline that Appalachians were learning mutual aid. Blink. The intention was, I believe, inclusiveness but a well meant article was utterly trashed by an ill written headline. As if less educated people need to be taught mutual aid. As if fly over country is a place to parachute in then get back to real life without having learned anything new. No malice. Just an unfathomable distance. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.
https://nextcity.org/urbanist-news/we-know-what-its-like-how-appalachian-towns-are-learning-to-help-each-other
What good does it do?
If you feeling better is what you’re after, and it does that, mission accomplished.
Let’s put it this way, when I’ve messed up something, or I’m in trouble, the first thing I think isn’t thank God someone told me how stupid I was. The people I remember are the ones who help me out.